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中印邊界沖突,西方網民怎么看?(待翻譯)


Sino-Indian border dispute
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原文鏈接:http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/geo-strategic-issues/sino-indian-border-dispute-12906/

This is a discussion on Sino-Indian border dispute within the Geo-strategic Issues forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; I would like to listen to different opinions about Sino-Indian border disputes. The border disputes of China and India lie ...


Vertias
Location: Singapore

I would like to listen to different opinions about Sino-Indian border disputes.The border disputes of China and India lie primarily in 2 areas, the Aksai Chin in the western sector and the McMahon line in the eastern sector. 

The Aksai Chin is about 37,250 sqkm, currently controlled by China. The Chinese claimed Southern Tibet, under Indian control is about 65,000 sqkm, now roughly corresponds to the Indian State of Arunachal Pradesh.

譯文加載中。。。


swerve
Location: Reading, Berkshire

There is a very simple rule, which if followed, will put you on the right side (as in morally, not necessarily the most expedient) every time: All Chinese claims are wrong.

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Vertias
Location: Singapore

You may not convince people that Chinese are wrong if you do not back it up. The most authoritative books on Sino Indian War by Neville Maxwell, an Australian/British has nailed the Indians as the aggressors.

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swerve

Irrelevant. You asked about the border disputes. The rightness or wrongness of territorial disputes is not affected by who shoots first in a particular conflict.

China has a long list of claims, all based on the principle that if it's ever been ruled by China, or by any state including China (e.g. the Mongol or Manchu states while they ruled China), or had diplomatic relations with China under the old tributary system (the smaller state gave the Emperor gifts, which were accepted as his due, from the lesser to the greater, & he, in his kindness, gave them gifts of equal or greater value), then China has a legitimate claim to it.

Chinese generals have written of Ryukyu as having been Chinese, for example. It never was. There were never Chinese soldiers stationed there, & it never had any Chinese administrators.Ambassadors from the Manchu court visited every now & then. They delivered gifts, accepted some, & went away again. Under Chinese rules, that made it Chinese.

Much the same with Arunachal Pradesh & Aksai Chin. Aksai Chin & parts of Arunachal Pradesh have, sometimes, been ruled by Tibet. China controls Tibet. China therefore claims everything that's ever been ruled by Tibet.

Under this logic, Morocco can lay claim to much of Spain, all of Algeria & Tunisia, most of Libya, Mauritania & Mali. Italy can claim England, Wales, Iraq, Portugal, Romania, & everything in between. And so on . . . 

China is the only significant country still using the obsolete logic of imperialism to justify territorial claims against its neighbours.

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Vertias
Location: Singapore

I will first answer you about Ryukyu. You are wrong to say that Chinese general claim Ryukyu on behalf of China. You can never find any documents to support this statement as it is entirely faked by you. Ryukyu is a vassal state of China. It is not China who covet Ryukyu but the opposite, Ryukyu people have a lot of love for China, even after that hate propaganda by Japan and western countries regarding Diaoyu, that Japan claims illegally on behalf of Ryukyu. 

Below is by wikileaks and it shows you how much Ryukyu people love China and hate Japan.

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Quote:

Many Okinawans identify with China culturally and believe China sees them as a separate people from the Japanese. Some also say Okinawa, over the centuries, has received better treatment from China than from Japan or the United States. These attitudes combine to produce an Okinawan perspective that is markedly different from that of mainland Japan

In recent years, China's economic expansion and growing military capabilities have attracted a great deal of attention in Japan, although somewhat less in Okinawa. The two leading Okinawan newspapers generally appear reluctant to feature articles about the potential negative impacts on regional security associated with China's rise

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In Okinawa, however, many - probably most -residents have a substantially different assessment of China. In general, Okinawans perceive little potential threat from China; many people here note China and the Ryukyu Kingdom had peaceful relations for centuries prior to the 19th Century Meiji Restoration in Japan. To be sure, there are Okinawans who are as concerned about China's destabilizing possibilities as are many mainlanders, but this is not the prevailing view on the island. 

We asked why a look at a map of the region surrounding Okinawa and current stories regarding China's expansion didn't provide Okinawans enough information for them to judge for themselves. Tomon replied the GOJ and USG were like the boy who cried wolf, pointing to China and claiming that something awful might happen, but nothing ever did.

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By entering into close trading relationships with both China and Japan in the 14th and 15th centuries, the Ryukyu Kingdom enjoyed a lengthy period of prosperity in the years before 1609. As George Kerr notes in his book Okinawa: The History of an Island People, "the islands were independent. They were in constant communication and at peace with neighboring states. Okinawans were in the happy position of freedom to adopt what they wanted, and to remain indifferent - or at best mildly curious - about foreign artifacts and institutions for which they felt no pressing need. China loomed as the neighbor of unquestioned superiority, and Okinawans were in close and constant communication with Japan, but were overwhelmed by neither." Many Okinawans today regard this period as the Golden Age of their history, and view it as a basis for their belief that China sees Okinawa a place entirely separate from Japan. 

譯文加載中。。。

We believe most Okinawans side with China. Typical of this attitude is Masaru Yamada, treasurer of Okinawa City, who recently criticized Koizumi's visits to Yasukuni Shrine. He told us he doubted China would ever accept Koizumi's explanations of the visits, any more than he himself did. Okinawans and Chinese held similar views of the visits, he explained, because they shared the experience of having been "prisoners of war" of the Japanese. 

Many Okinawans believe that China sees them differently, and more warmly, than it sees the rest of Japan. They point out that Taipei International Airport, when posting place names in Chinese characters, lists flights to/from "Ryukyu," not Okinawa.

譯文加載中。。。

The above caveats notwithstanding, Okinawa's sense of affinity with China and feeling of distance from Japanese interests give this place a unique perspective on Sino-Japanese relations,

China has a list of claims and she has settled all her land dispute with almost everybody, other than India, and Bhutan, which is India's vassal. Qing dynasty China has ruled Tibet and that indeed give China a legitimate claim of entire Tibet land. 

British has ruled India. Unilaterally and illegally, British India was claimant to South Tibet and base on this fact, India claims Southern Tibet illegally and shamelessly.

There is no such thing as India before the arrival of British and India is the result of imperialism. Under whatever logic you have, India should break up as it is a product of British imposing their tyrannical rule of unwilling princely states of Bharat. On top of all, Kashmir should go Independent.

譯文加載中。。。
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